Illinois Casinos & Gambling Forum - Poker, Pari-mutuel

lork · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 27

i was in a low limit NL table on pokerstars when i picked up J J. it was to me so i raised it 5x the big blind. He then put in a huge reraise and oddly left himself less left than the reraise he had just made. I decided that he was holding AQ or AK and hoping that my jacks would hold up, pushed him all in for the rest of his money. Turns out i was right: he was holding AK and hit 2 pair on the flop. Where are pocket Jacks ranked on the list of starting hands? Was my play correct? How much of a favorite am I holding Jacks against his AK preflop?

lork · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 27

oops...forgot important detail. One of the reasons I was so tempted to call was b/c the previous hand I had doubled up against him. He was definately steaming and I figured that there was that small chance that he was playing reckless due to the frustration built up from the previous hand.

pritz · Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 14

To my mind a pair of Jacks is the 5st best hand preflop. Two jacks is 57.3% favorite to win against AK off. As to wether your play was right you made a very good read on him and his play was wild but how sure were you he held AK AQ. if this was a ring game and you were certain he wouldn't play a big pair this way then your play was correct.

norshvind · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 19

pocket jacks are highly overrated. If you can put your opponent on two higher cards or a suited ace, your in trouble. There are still technically 12 cards in a deck higher than a jack and if you run into a higher pp which is not rare, your are all but drawing dead. Raise preflop but don't too aggressive with JJ, especially in a ring game. See a flop and play it from there.

johnf · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 22

pocket jacks are highly overrated. If you can put your opponent on two higher cards or a suited ace, your in trouble. There are still technically 12 cards in a deck higher than a jack and if you run into a higher pp which is not rare, your are all but drawing dead. Raise preflop but don't too aggressive with JJ, especially in a ring game. See a flop and play it from there.

johnf · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 22

JJ is the 4th best starting hand according to Sklansky and Malmuth's time-proven chart. I agree-if they are played properly. You play these cards aggressively. Only three possible hands have you beat pre-flop. Against twtoo overcards 57% favorite. Against one overcard (unsuited) 70% favorite. Against one overcard (suited cards) 67% favorite.

You raise these hands hard and force callers to play from behind most of the time. The only delicacy is when you are re-raised, as you have to determine if you're playing against a higher pair.

teddyfist · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 5

I hate pocket jacks and pocket queens the most out of any pocket pairs. They have let me down the most out of all of the pocket pairs.

The reason is because they're hard to lay down. In some situations you have to learn to lay them down. I laid down queens I think twice in one night, and it was correct to lay them down.

Pocket jacks you have to play very cautiously. They look good because their paint, but looks can be deceiving. You have to know when to lay them down. If the flop comes and the flop is higher than your jacks than you have to learn to lay them down. Your jacks aren't good anymore. If you have the feeling they hit an ace or a king, go with your poker instincts and lay the hand down.

On your play. 5x the big blind is too much for pocket jacks. I personally don't even raise that much with pocket aces. If he put in a huge re-raise I think I would have folded. It all depends on how the player is playing,how much money you have, how much money he has, your position etc.

One of the key traits a person needs to become a great poker player is learning to lay down big hands.

jhasper · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 11

I always treat pocket Jacks as a drawing hand in low limit NL as any Ace and a lot of kings will call a medium raise and with a big raise you either win a very small amount or get dominated by a biggger hand. I normally limp with them from any position and see how the flop looks to see if I want to continue.

Also by not making a big raise with them you are not marrying yourself to the hand, making it easier to lay lown if the flop is not to your liking.

With pocket Queens I will limp from early position hoping to hit a heavily disguised set, but raise from late position to push out the blinds and other non-committed limpers.

Obviously with both hands I will bet aggressively after the flop if an overcard has not fallen. If an overcard falls I will either bet out, raise a bet or fold depending on my opponent. But I never call a bet in this spot.

You shouldn't have a problem laying down high PP if an overcard falls and you are sure that someone has made top pair. You would lay down middle pair in a multi-way pot instantly to any serious betting so you should treat your PP no differently to that.

ballen · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 25

Pocket jacks are a great hand heads up but I treat them very cautiously with a near full ring. Just the other day I got mocked by the table for throwing away pocket jacks with 7 people left in the tourney, I made a 5x big blind raise and the chip leader came over the top for 15x the bb. I was number 2 in chips and put him on, the very least, 2 over cards. There was no reason for me to gamble at that point. And jacks are especially dangerous when at a full ring game. If it is limit, you have to raise, but expect to throw it away with over cards on the table. In no limit, I will switch up my play from aggressive, to try to get it heads up with someone, to weak, playing it as a draw, hit the set or get out unless a garbage flop hits the table.

crazypete · Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 7

I forget the exact number, but im fairly certain an overcard will flop over half the time if you have pocket jacks. So when you get a caller, half the time you'll be thinking "god I HATE jacks" after the flop.

jorpot · Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 12

He said "overcards at the very least." And even if he has AK it's not like all that he can do is make a pair. There is no reason to get involved in that hand. Let's say a king ends up flopping, you just wasted a lot of money on a marginal situation.

DeepBlue · Joined: 19 Dec 2005 Posts: 93

Very true, it's not really worth playing it at all. The Jacks aren't a bad hand, but they aren't the best by a way either so although I applaud the aggressive play you were leaving yourself open to trouble if someone was holdings Kings or Aces.

Chi_Town · Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 20 Location: Joliet, IL

People have pretty much said it right... the 5x's raise was too much. You either pick up the blinds only, or you throw away too much with a reraise like that. If you are going to play a reraise after raising 5x's, you may as well go all in to start.

It is easier to let go of JJ if you only put in 3x's. Plus, the AK maybe just calls the 3x's bet because the pot is not that big yet... the 5x's bet makes it worth going after strong. If he called, you can see the flop and make a better decision (AK on the flop is an easy lay-down).

Now, being that it was a cash game, you have little to gain by facing a coin flip and a lot to loose against an over pair. Bring the raise back down to 3x's and try to make plays down stream.