[lork]

Lately I've been wondering what the best strategy is for playing middle pairs preflop under the gun. Sometimes I think it's better to limp. I like this play because it allows me to easily throw them away after a big raise and/or a reraise. Other times, though, I like to make a standard raise to try to force out the remaining competition. However, this causes a problem because after a big raise it's a little harder to fold to a reraise with a made hand. Any thoughts?

[chris]

Its one of the few hands I limp on, unless we are down to a few players in an SNG, where the hand has more value. I finally figured out that I don't like middle pair unless they set on the flop. I consistently see other players overbetting these hands, being taken down by players with higher pairs or getting draws on their AK, AQ, KQ, etc. If for example you are playing middle pair and you are playing against me, then I will be playing suited connectors, one of these three hands above or a high pair, and I will be raising (usually), unless I am mixing my game, which I sometimes do. If I get my draw (or already have my KK)I'll have you beat. I'm astonished at how many times I'll bet out heavy with KK or QQ to get rid of the draws and end up taking down someone limping along with 99 five cards later. I don't value mid pairs at all unless I can get a cheap draw, and then only if they set (at which point it becomes a monster because no one can see it .. then you have to get rid of the straight and flush draws).

[johnf]

I disagree.

Middle pairs can work out if played aggressively, but in-line with how you would play QQ.

In other words, you raise pre-flop. Flop comes...either over cards (check/fold since the caller pretty much will have an ace) or if it comes low bet out. At least 80% of the time the other person with pocket paint will fold. Sometimes they'll play back, in that case you let your hand go. But you'll usually be re-raised pre-flop if they have QQ KK or AA, so you don't have to worry bout them.

[arcfinn]

I understand your position and strategy johnf ... it makes sense and is a cautious strategy ... bet big on the deal and back off if you see overcards (and I suppose by that you mean only big overcards, not an 8 if you are playing 77), but it seems to me that the likelihood of not seeing an overcard when you are playing mid pair is low. Suppose you are playing 88. Half the deck is above you. And again, I keep running up against 88, 99, etc. that are betting against my queens (or whatever). I don't see these pairs winning many hands until it gets down to 3 or 4 players.

[arcfinn]

Well, the people that keep running into your QQ/KK with 99/88 are probably playing them too strongly. Like johnf said, assuming you reraised preflop with KK/QQ he should be able to avoid that situation.

If however, he just called you with KK/QQ preflop, and you are betting a safe flop and he just calls, those are sticky situations in online poker. Personally if I feel that I'm in this situation (and this is just my opinion), I like an informational bet, one he would feel compelled to raise you with if he has a real hand, or just call you with something marginal.

[Chi_Town]

If you can count on 5 callers (no raises, then middle/low pair (77 or lower) is OK to limp with. You are about 7:1 to hit trips, so 5:1 on the flop should be good to get you the implied odds you need (maybe even 4:1 if you know you can get action on the flop). Problem is, you risk a preflop raise, where you have to call with a beat hand, fold without even seeing a board card, or you need a perfect flop to keep playing (face cards will be problematic).

If you where raised and you hit trips great, if you miss, but the board is rags... you can consider some plays (the raiser probably had high cards). Make a probe bet to see how the raiser feels about his hand, (your check-call could look like 88, 99, or TT so a weak board could run him off, and you may actrually have him beat with the pair anyway). If he fires back, then quietly muck. Likewise, you can check-fold if he attacks.

An alternative play instead of just limping is to raise with 55 or better. It looks like a big pair or something like AK. If you hit trips your opponent will have no way of knowing you are so strong, and if an A or K hits the board, you have the opporutnity to make a continuation bet and steal (you may have the best hand anyway). Again, if you bet and get raised, call it quits right there. But this scenario means that you believe that a early raise will limit the field down to 1 or 2 opponents. Too many callers, and you have no bluff.